Visit Portobello (and let your dog shit everywhere)

[James A]

If you can't clean up after your dog then you don't deserve to have one.

The amount of dogshit on the beach, promenade and surrounding streets is absoloutely disgusting. I went for a walk down the prom to the cat and dog home and had to dodge about 12 piles of dog doo-doo. It is infuriating.

On two different occasions this week alone there has been two separate piles of crap on the pavement outside my house.

Is there anyway we can band dogs from the promenade or have undercover 'Environmental Wardens' patrolling the area?

These people who let their pets deposit dog toffee on the beautiful streets of Portobello and Joppa are selfish.

[fresian]

Apparently it is being promoted by PCC and PPAG as a warning as to what we can expect around the rest of Porty if a new school is built on the existing dog toilet.

[tom nimmo]

James A, you got the title of this thread wrong. It should read "Live in Portobello (and let your dog shit everywhere)" Don't kid yourself that it's visitors who let their dogs shit everywhere, it's locals who are the problem. Environmental Wardens are the biggest waste of time and money as the last thing they want is confrontation. Mind you, it's not just Portobello as I bet there is not a street in Edinburgh that doesn't have a dog shit collection. Proper enforcing of the existing laws by proper Police, proper fines for offenders and forced removal of their dogs with immediate effect when caught, name and shame offenders in the Portobello Reporter and, as a final punishment, collect and deposit a nice pile of dog shit on the doorsteps of convicted offenders is what is required. Just in case you are wondering, yes, I am a dog owner and yes, I do clean up after it.

[thecrawfords]

I cant agree more James.
Today on the way home from nursery walking along the prom my 2 year old stood in dog shit.
I took her down to the sea and walked her up and down trying to get it off her welly boot and got most off.
While doing so it felt like there were swarms of dogs on the beach. At every turn there were dogs sniffing and circling around my 4 and 2 year old children. We could barely get a minutes peace on the beach for dogs and big dogs at that bounding around us and owners saying the same thing "oh he just want to play" "shes just being friendly" god if I heard it once I heard it a dozen times. And there was dog shit everywhere.

Got home only to find I had also got dog shit on my lovely new leather boots. Stinking and disgusting. Lunch was delayed for 30 minutes while I scraped dog shit off my boots outside my flat, had to rinse my boots in the bath (yes someones dog shit all over the bottom of my new Bathstore bath) then take thick bleach to the sole of my boot and my bath and machine wash my doormat as I had trailed it into the house. Lovely!

I also live in a block of 6 flats, not one of us in these 6 flats has a dog but the place is strewn with dog shit.

The council need to realise that there is a percentage of dog owners who will never ever pick up after their dogs.
For this reason I would like to see a ban on dogs on Portobello Beach. I would like to see a section of beach maybe 80 meteres at the Seafield end clearly marked for dogs where dogs and their owners can run and do what ever. I would like the rest of the beach to be dog free. All dogs on leads at all times. I would like a promonade and beach where I am my children can go without being contaminated by dog shit and where my children are not constantly pestered, sniffed and terrified by dogs.

Is it Porty dogs or visitors- its both. I see cars arriving at the bottom of Kings Road and dogs getting out as well as dogs trotting out of Kings Road flats - god there must be hundreds of dogs in Kings Road as that street is just filthy.

So if you are a dog owner/walker and you come across a grumpy woman with 2 children on the beach and your dog is sniffing around us and I dont get into friendly talk with you its because I am completley fed up! fed up cleaning dog shit of my kids shoes, fed up cleaning dogshit of my buggy and off my own shoes!

Maybe some of you have met me already!

[Pal of Porty]

....... At every turn there were dogs sniffing and circling around my 4 and 2 year old children. We could barely get a minutes peace on the beach for dogs and big dogs at that bounding around us and owners saying the same thing "oh he just want to play" "shes just being friendly" god if I heard it once I heard it a dozen times......

My kids are older now but I used to find this often occurring scenario an absolute nightmare. A really large dog took a lunge at my son and knocked him flying. I never felt he was in mega danger (although you never really know) and the owner was nice but the end result was that he was scared to go near a dog for ages and this spoilt some of his fun on the beach. I got so fed up of it that I used to reply to the owners along the lines of - " Well if the dog comes over here again I hope you realise that I am only playing when I kick your dog in the nuts". Positive Porty

[Franck]

I've got a muckle galoot of a dug, he's really massive.As friendly as a dog can be and as daft as that too.He loves to play with people and my lad uses him as a practice enemy in toy fights.This means the dug thinks all kids want the same rough and tumble, it's not his fault, it's mine.So whenever I take him to the beach, it's to the quieter end with not many kids ( those that dare venture that far west are fair game )

As for picking up his shyte, my goodness sometimes I need a JCB, but I always do it.

[seashell]

I have a small, very friendly dog that children are drawn to like filings to a magnet - always wanting to clap him. He's always on a lead, because I don't want to take the risk of something happening - both dogs and children are unpredictable.

As for picking up poo - it's no big deal for the owner, but it is a big deal for everyone else. I have a container for poop bags that clips onto the lead. What is needed is more bins for dumping this in.

I have seen some piles of poo that leave me convinced someone in the neighbourhood has a pet elephant.

[Bob Jefferson]

Great posts today! I particularly liked the rant from thecrawfords - clearly a woman at the end of her tether! And I agree entirely - the main beach should be dog-free and dogs on the Promenade should be kept on a lead at all times. No problem with dogs but hate irresponsible and inconsiderate dog-owners.

[Underscore]

I agree that owners need to do more to ensure waste is removed but its crazy to ask for a ban on dogs. The main use of the beach is people walking dogs. Where are they going to move to? Also there is no reason for a dog to be kept on a lead unless it has not been properly trained. Its never nice to step in dog shit, but lets get a little bit of perspective. Some are sounding like our anti school friends...

[seashell]

Any dog, no matter how well-trained or not is a potential risk - especially to children. You cannot guarantee that your dog will not react to a situation where it gets over-excited, or feels threatened or even is hurt by biting. There is every reason to keep a dog on a lead in public places, which is why responsible owners do just that.

[seanie]

I had to look into the possibility of a dog-free zone on the beach a while back and it wasn't easy. There's an underlying presumption of a right of access under the 'right to roam' and it's difficult to suspend that. The places that do have dog-free zones tend to do it on an implied basis, without anything to back it up. And even if you did go through the process of formally excluding dogs from a particular area, there's no likelihood of manpower to enforce it.

[bearcub]

The problem is that the same people who currently refuse to pick up after their dogs would be the same ones that would ignore any dog 'no-go' area. Responsible dog-owners would observe it, but they're not the problem.

[lg1726]

When I was a kid there were very few "adult" places which allowed kids in, on the presumption that we would all misbehave and spoil the environment for the grown ups. Over time (quite a bit in my case) this has changed and now we (rightly) see children enjoying these spaces, yet you still see some tight lipped older folks tutting and looking daggers at kids sometimes. You hear them muttering, and sometime being quite vocal about the behaviour of "children today", often loudly laying the blame at the parents. We are so much more tolerant of young children everywhere and that is truly great and as it should be.

However, as a dog owner and a parent I have to say that it is so much easier to "control" a dog than kids!! If dogs are fouling, it is for the owner to dispose of it and if they are being troublesome to others, it is for the owner to deal with it. Banning them for certain areas will not encourage those irresponsible owners to "control" their dogs and may indeed even encourage resentment by them towards others and so have the potential to make things worse.

We never take our dogs to the busy part of the beach at peak times, but at other times, rain, hail, sleet and snow, often the only people you see on the beach are dog owners/walkers. Some of them would say they are the "regular" users of the beach area and the families and kids only use it in clement weather! We all have to inhabit the same space, the same environment and we all have to take responsibility for our dogs (and our kids) when sharing the space and we have to tolerate those who do not share our love of dogs. However, those of us dog owners who do take responsibility deserve some respect, and not be banned from sections of our environment as a consequence of the actions of those who are not so responsible. I was banned from places as a kid, just for being a kid and it would seem a bit sad if we could not find another way of resolving this thorny issue.

I bought one of those spay cans of neon yellow paint and on occasions, when our local park is getting particularly bad due to owners not dealing with the dog fouling, I take it to the park and spay it around the offending items! You'd be surprised how well it works! As close to name and shame as I can get!!!!

[portygeoff]

Having run along the prom early mornings I can say that it is often too dark for owners to see if and where their dogs are doing their business. Dogs running free on the beach are often shitting and the owners are unaware. Even the most conscientious owner will not be able to guarantee that their dog is not doing it business if the dog is not on a lead. And what about the piss on the beach, that is never collected.

[Porty]

This all begs the question: If you are a pet owner who can't be bothered picking up your pets shit, why a dog?. Get yourself a seagull. Nobody gives too hoots about them shitting on the beach.

[Grunk]

It's worse now it is dark most of the time, folk think they can get away with it under the cover of darkness.

I would like to see more environmental wardens (not just during the day). A way to report owners that let their dogs foul the area. And a more punitive approach.

The last is probably all that is really needed. if the punishment was a £500 fine instead of £50 after the first few of these got handed out, irresponsible dog owners would soon hear about it and change their ways. Also two weeks community service going round picking up dog poop tacked on the end wouldn't go amiss either.

Responsible dog owners wouldn't have to change a thing.

[seashell]

I think the "picking up poo" community service option is the best one. Fresh poo is okay to deal with - but old poo is vile!

[thecrawfords]

In todays Evening News ....
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-eveni ... -1-2762457

[geofflynn]

Is there a dog problem in Portobello's parks and beach areas?

How does a community balance the wishes of dog owners to enjoy public spaces with their pets and at the same time respect the views of those who are not so keen on canines?

If you think there is a problem, what do you suggest is the solution?

Have your say:-
http://porty.org.uk/pooch-problem

[lg1726]

Personally I dont think there is a significant dog problem, but as the owner of two dogs, I'm bound to say that am i not?! I hate to see dog mess anywhere - not just porty and get pretty annoyed at the actions, or rather, inactions of lazy dog owners and the knee jerk reactions that all dogs are a nuisance and all dog owners are irresponsible.

Every day, rain, hail, sleet or snow dogs and owners are on the beach and for the vast majority of the days of the year, are the only ones on the beach! To introduce a ban seems madness to me - sledge hammer and nut spring to mind. How will it be enforced, if we dont see any indication of the existing legislation being applied, how will this and by whom?

Also, re your online survey, it's just a hunch, but i rather suspect that a reasonable number of the dog owners who are on the beach every day dont use this sort of medium for communication, consultation and participation (know this from day job - our surveys involving older people need have an alternative to online to ensure response requirements!) so how will they be able to get involved as they will be significantly affected by any proposed changes?

We need to see more in the way of enforcing the current legislations and actually see the penalty notices getting enforced. Dog wardens need to be seen and not just between 9-5, but at all times, weekends, evenings and early mornings included. Those who allow their dogs to foul and not clean up need to be tackled, the problem as it is can be addressed by existing legislation without banning a significant section of the community from parts of that community.

We moved to Porty because we believed it to be a tolerant area - the idea of banning sections of the community from one of its key facilities does not sit well with me, for what ever reason.

[wangi]

Discussion on BBC Radio Scotland's "Call Kaye" tomorrow from 09:40.

[Underscore]

I also dont think its a problem. I dont have dogs - but my kids play on the beach all the time and dog shit has never been a problem. Would be a real shame if people arent allowed to have their dogs on the beach. Can i ask who picks up after cats???

[wangi]

Likewise, I don't think it's that bad... On the Prom I'd prefer the dogs on leads (and that's normally the case), and on the beach let them off.

A few dog owners let the others down; but that's true of cyclists, drivers, ...

(But anyone using one of those retractable stealth - cyclist trapping - leads needs to get a talking to)

[urchaidh]

For me there is a real problem, but it's not on the beach, it's on our streets and I doubt it's only in Porty. I push a buggy or walk with two toddlers and our pavements are a faecal minefield. The ratio of turds to dogs suggests it is a small minority of owners that are responsible, but that doesn't make it any less of a real, everyday, problem.

I'd welcome dogs on leads on the prom and an area of the beach designated as dog free might be nice, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.


I thought the questionnaire was a good start at gauging local opinion though, shame it appears to have been turned into a conflict by the media.

(p.s. not a dog owner myself)

[StarVanMan]

Dog owners: genuine questions from a non-dog owner... can you really see where your dog has pooed on the beach, prom or a park everytime you take it for a walk when its dark? Isnt it easy to miss it when you are texting, chatting, lost in your thoughts etc? Do they poo on every walk ie if you havent picked up anything then you must have missed it?

[James A]

There have been some interesting points raised. First of all,
anyone who says there isn't a problem clearly needs to go for a walk
down the prom and the streets just off it. There is dog keich everywhere.
I would favour a designated area for dogs and a rule where dogs are on
the lead on the prom and the designated beach area. I realise
this is unlikely to happen so what we really need are Environmental
Officers to turn up and actually patrol the area and earn their
money. As someone mentioned not just 9-5 but early morning / late night too.
Perhaps if a few fines were dished out then we may see less dog crap everywhere.
I know this is a citywide problem but i live in Portobello and i want to
see clean, dogshit free pavements and prom!

[seashell]

StarVanMan

If you have your dog on a lead, then it's easy to know where and when it has pooed. And if your dog is off lead and if it is so dark you can't see the poo, then it's a fair chance you can't see your dog either - which is kind of dangerous! Like people, dogs vary, but they don't poo every single time they go out. It is, however, pretty easy to know when they are doing one - especially if they are on a lead. basically, if you keep an eye on your dog, then there isn't a problem. But, if you let your dog roam freely and don't bother to watch it, then you could easily not know it is pooing/harassing other people or dogs etc.

So most of the time there isn't any excuse for not picking up after dog - it is just laziness or complete disregard for other people.

Said as a dog owner who even picks up dog poo when in the middle of the countryside - because it is easy to get into the habit.

[rosyontheprom]

For me the issue is more about numbers of dogs at once and professional dog walkers. I live right on the prom, walk along the beach often (without dog) and am often hindered by 8 dogs and one dog walker, sometimes there can be 11 dogs. These guys earn a living from professionally walking dogs, why do they have to do it in our public space? Other cities have limits on the dog / person ratio - 4 dogs per one adult for eg, so why cant we.

[Carrie-On-Regardless]

I see a lot of the discussion here is focussing on the Prom, but what about the surrounding streets of the high street? There is dog muck everywhere and it seems to be getting worse. Surely something can be done!

[Mark Cameron]

Here's the latest Tripadvisor review added this week. This is what visitors are experiencing.

Like it or not there is a growing issue and I fear it'll only get worse if left alone. We need the community to work together to find a solution that sits well with dog owners and non dog owners.

“Bit of a dump if the truth is told”
Reviewed 19 February 2013

I agree with the reviewer from October last year who advised folk not to waste their time. It really needs some serious financial investment to improve what, at present, is a bit of a dump. Small kids probably won't see what adults see though and will still enjoy a romp on the imported sand (from Holland I heard?) Be careful with the young 'uns though - the footpaths and parts of the beach were strewn with dog filth, coupled to which the public toilets had been boarded-up. The nearby Leisure centre had a sign in the entrance telling you NOT to come in to use their toilets but '...go to the public toilets'! We tried the fish and chip shop who were selling appalling quality food (although were very a friendly family I have to say) - we saw frozen packaged chips being tipped into the fryer and the 'haddock' fish was of poor quality and expensive. The whole area looks run-down. Leith high-street a couple of miles away is a far better colourful place to spend time.

[wangi]

Don't poo on the Prom! Somebody has a left a message!

[seashell]

What kind of deformed beasties are pooing on the prom? That creature looks more like an unfortunate horse than a dog...

But on a serious note - jolly good idea - would be better if it was backed up by a "bag it and bin it" message, although not sure how that could easily be communicated by an image. Oh, and another important thing to encourage dog walkers to deal with their animals' output is to have loads of bins, either free standing or on lamp-posts to deposit the poop bags in. It takes joined-up thinking and execution to really make a difference and encouragement and practical planning is more effective than castigation. Not that there is ever an excuse for not picking up after your dog, but the responsible owners already do this.

[Doris]

I think the image is great however when I saw it I wondered if it was a comment on the state of the Prom, a reminder to irresponsible dog-owners (!) or a plea not to allow dog-fouling. Think there needs to be a big red cross put through the steaming pile - just to make things clear.......