Central Bar - concern over opening hours

[Bob Jefferson]

I meant to flag this up sooner and the deadline is now tomorrow. The new licensees of the Central Bar have applied for a license that would allow them to serve alcohol from 7 am! It's bad enough having to run the gauntlet of smokers outside the Portobello Bar from 9 am but this would mean hundreds of primary and secondary school children having to negotiate a very busy and narrow corner past people who may have already been drinking for almost 2 hours. In my view it's completely unacceptable.

If you wish to object, please do so by email to:

tracey.mclean@edinburgh.gov.uk

Quote the name address of the premises, which is Central Bar, 163 Portobello High Street, EH15 1EU.

Remember, the deadline is tomorrow!

[Jamesie]

Playing devil's advocate here, but surely even with a 9am licence these kids still potentially could be walking past people who have been drinking for four hours come lunchtime, or seven hours come home time? On that basis is the 7am opening really that much of a concern?

[Bob Jefferson]

Yes, good point Jamesie though I do think that the experience of going to school in the morning is something I would like to protect and of course primary school kids remain in school at lunchtime.

And I don't mind you playing devil's advocate as long as you are not offering your services to the licensees.

[Bob Jefferson]

Oh dear, those of us who have concerns about this are already being branded "toffe noses" and, by inference, incomers.

[Puerto bella]

Well then I'm a toffe nosed snob and proud of it.

[BeachBum]

If you wish to object, please do so by email to:

tracey.mclean@edinburgh.gov.uk

Am I right to presume its the same email address to voice support for the application?

[wangi]

All the info you may need is here: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20171/ ... ng_board/3

[lg1726]

Each to their own I say. Whilst I do not wish to drink in any bar at 7am I have worked shifts in the past and completely see why shift workers would want the option and it is not for me to either comment, nor indeed judge.

I do fear that taking a stance against this does rather leave one open to accusations of elitism and possibly toffe nosed! The Central Bar is not the first to seek a 7am licence and so there is already a precedence set and whilst is it not a bar I would look to frequent, I can equally be made to feel unwelcome in many of the more "on trend" places which have recently opened up. We all have our preferences and we should all be allowed that right.

This campaign does rather come across as middle class and patronising, something that others in the community have been accused of for objecting to something on a perceived subjective NIMBY basis. Live and let live to all!!!

[Sceptic]

Another bit of PAVED? Portobello Against Virtually Every Development? Having worked shifts, I can sympathise with everyone who finishes his / her work at 6 /7 in the morning, but, unlike the 9-5 mob, cannot have a refreshment, even coffee, at that time. If it causes a problem, THEN, lodge complaints, but , please do not anticipate them.

[Puerto bella]

It seems from the tone that people expressing their opinion and if it happens to be against rather than for something - they are branded Antis? If the Central Bar had an enclosed patio at the rear where people could smoke to their hearts content then they could get on with it BUT it hasnt. Its not pleasant or in the interests of the health of our community to have clouds of smokers outside pubs aka Gallion or Portobello Bar. It pulls the area down in terms of real investment into our High St because that selfish act of a few brands our HIgh St in a certain way that does not attract positive investment....It a real fact not an inverted snobbery lets all be pals with an old jakie and live and let live kind of way.

[seanie]

I don't see the early hours for the Portobello Bar causing much of a problem.

[lg1726]

lets all be pals with an old jakie and live and let live kind of way

I was pretty irritated by all this before, but now I am deeply, deeply offended and extremely disappointed. I'm disappointed because I and my family moved to Porty around 13 years ago, like many who moved here we liked the feel of the area, liked that it was more "real" than many other parts of Edinburgh and that the mix of people meant that there was a tolerant attitude. However, it would appear that this more tolerant attitude seems to have changed and unless we all subscribe to the more middle class twee gentrification of our environment we are somehow letting Porty down. Our High Street must address the needs of the entire community and not merely those who want to see it ape Morningside or Stockbridge. It should seek to serve the demands of the consumers who use it and if the Central Bar can sustain a market for a 7am opening, then good luck to them, market forces will determine that. Being a small business owner right now is tough and lets not forget, this is someone's livelihood here. The High Street is for all Porty of all creeds, types and class!

And I'm offended as the old jakie as you put it might have been my father who died early as a result of smoking who was a hard grafting working class joiner and would have loved those pubs you refer to and who, if still alive would be amongst those clouds of smokers as you put it. Would that have made him less than you or me or anyone else here? I may be a well educated, professional, middle class achiever, but I come from strong working class roots and I'm bloody proud of them and what they have made me and I never forget them. As the daughter of a "jakie", I take back the live and let live philosophy and exclude the middle class types who want to turn Porty into something it never has been and really could not sustain. This is not Morningside or Stockbridge, these places exist for those who want them, but the house prices are significantly more than here - we can't get it all ways!

With respect for my health and well-being I will now terminate my involvement in this forum and indeed anything else to do with "community" action and campaigns, including PFANS and anything else at all. PAVED as someone else has branded it has done it for me and I can no longer put up with this them/us divisiveness. NIMBYism is the same whether it is about objecting to a school across the road or the change of a pub licence down the street and whatever it is - I hate NIMBYism!

[gillian]

Well Ig1726, if you have hung around long enough to read responses, I will be sorry to see you go. I have often seen you as a voice of reason on these pages.
Portobello is what it is because of ALL the people who live in it. The inference that the people who smoke outside the bars are in some way responsible for lack of investment in the High street is offensive and smacks of an unpleasant intolerance that I hoped didn't exist in Portobello.

[lg1726]

Thank you for your comments rosa and for your support of my position. I hung around because my phone rang in the intervening time and as a small business owner myself I can ill afford not to respond and so am still here, meantime! Like you, I too am sorry to see such intolerance here in Portobello and I often wonder why people move into an area and then try so hard to change it into something else.

All of this combined with the recent press about someone complaining about the military jets at the tattoo defies me and I am finding it harder and harder to understand the positions of many in this community. ALL of porty is becoming a laughing stock, even those of us who fight to retain the rights of all and tolerance of all and I'm fed up of it being honest with you.

[gillian]

I am always up for community spirit and making the most of our town. I take my hat off to the people who are willing to give up their time and use their energy to organise events like the beach busk/bunting projects and the like. I admire the people who have spent so much time fighting for the school on the park and for taking on the Community Council.
A community can work towards improvements, developments, progress without becoming intolerant of sections of that very community. What happened to Positive Porty?

[Pal of Porty]

I'm comfortable with the Central having a licence that allows them to open for drinking at 7.00am and yes I do have children (secondary school) that walk past the Central and the Portobello Bar everyday on their way to school. These are bars that I have frequented and I have some great stories from our time in them (by the way, if I had been present with the dog weeing, I would have included that in my list). Our kids are surrounded by all sorts of behaviour both good and bad and I do not want them brought up in a 'sanitised' environment straight out of the pages of 'Janet and John'.

[Puerto bella]

You can talk about tolerance all you like but the fact of the matter is everyone has different opinions on this issue - you have yours Lg and Rosa - I have mine. I am communicating in this forum, my opinion and making comment as I understand yours. It doesnt make one of us more right than the other - just different. If you're all about celebrating inclusion then why hop off because we dont agree?

[gillian]

I'm not hopping anywhere. I'm not saying that anyone is right or wrong just , like you, expressing my opinion. This time my opinion is tinged with disappointment. Just out of curiosity where would you have these people go? This doesn't seem to be about earlier opening hours any more. Much more about making personal comments about the people who do smoke outside. That, in my opinion, isn't right or acceptable

[Puerto bella]

I would genuinely like to understand why not?
I find smoking in public offensive and unacceptable - couple with people drinking or drunk - it does not create for me a positive image of a place.
If a bar has a courtyard smoking area, not on the public path, then I have no issue.

[gillian]

I admit, I don't actually know what an "old jakie" is, but it doesn't sound very complimentary. I'm just not sure why you had to resort to name calling.
I hate smoking, hate the smell, wish people didn't do it especially in public places. Presumably the people who do smoke outside the bars wish they could do it inside, they can't, so as there are no shelters out the back they do it on the pavements.
What's happening may not be right, it would undoubtedly be better if the smokers were accommodated else where. Doesn't make them old jakies though. At least I don't think it does.

[Franck]

I hope they get their licence, I'll use it prior to early kick offs at the football, and occasional final pint after a big night out.Portobello needs pubs for everyone, I'm not a huge fan of pubs like the skylark, but appreciate they serve an ever growing type of resident in the area.
I'm a smoker btw, and I'll stand in the street and smoke a fag wherever and whenever I feel the need, without feeling guilty for doing so.

I agree with the sentiment that it appears that people are trying to turn Portobello into something it isn't.

[Epykat]

I agree with the sentiment that it appears that people are trying to turn Portobello into something it isn't.

Don't say that too loud Franck - you'll be xenophobic before you know it!
My Dad must have been an old jakie as well, he used to stand outside the Royal Hotel a lot but at least I knew where to find him on my way home from school to tap 50p

[gillian]

So, what is an old jakie? is it a term of affection, have I got it wrong?

[Epykat]

Glasgow slang for an alcoholic according to the Urban Dictionary

[Puerto bella]

It is a term used for effect in order to create an impact in telling the story.
If you read back to what I originally wrote its kid of taking the p**s and using the term to exaggerate my understanding of what was being said in the posts that precede it.
Its a commonly used term to refer to an older man who stands outside a pub from dusk till dawn or sits on a bench boozing from dusk till dawn.....some might say - he's salt of the earth, a real character...bla bla bla I'm away to read my socialist worker- others might think - he's just an old jakie. We're all different. It is certainly not an offensive term more a colloquialism.

[Porty]

If the people investing in the Central are convinced that an early licence will assist their survival- that's fine by me. I really don't like smoking but smokers congregate outside all sorts of businesses. I often think that Bank of Scotand staff are incentivised to smoke, same goes for Thomas Cook.
Have teachers stopped smoking these days?

Stay with us Lg1276, my dad was a hard working docker 5 or 6 days a week and a Jakie on a thursday.

Epkykat's dad must have been upper class jakie if he was being tapped for 50p back in 1979- it was way more than 2 pints!!!

[Epykat]

Epkykat's dad must have been upper class jakie if he was being tapped for 50p back in 1979- it was way more than 2 pints!!!

Told you before - we came from the posh end of Bath Street.

[James A]

who fancies an early morning pub crawl?

[HankG]

Respect to lg1726 - totally agree and brilliantly put - also hope you have not bailed out of the debate permanently. The amazing thing about Portobello is it's diversity and it's tolerance. What next "No Sweary Word" zones? "Portobello Against Pies (and other baked goods)" ?

[wangi]

Good read guys - must admit I'm not fussed either way but good to see it being discussed.

L/

[Bob Jefferson]

Received today:

Dear Sir/Madam

LICENSING (SCOTLAND) ACT 2005
APPLICATION FOR PREMISES LICENCE:
PREMISES: 163 Portobello High Street Edinburgh EH15 1EU

I refer to the above application, in respect of which you had lodged objections.

I write to confirm the decision of the Licensing Board at it’s meeting on 27 August 2012 that the application be continued to the meeting on 24 September 2012.

The Board intend to do a site visit to the premises at 163 Portobello High Street on Monday 10 September at 11 am.  If you would like to attend please confirm with me at the undernoted phone number.  Please note that the Board will not be hearing representations.  The visit is merely to get an understanding of the proposal to use ground at the back of the premises as a smoking area.

Yours faithfully

Clerk of the Licensing Board

[wangi]

Councillor’s Report
September 2012
...
Central Bar Opening Hours
On Monday morning at the Licensing Board I represented the views of 33 objectors to the application for the Central Bar to open at 7am in the morning rather than 9am, which is contrary to current licensing policy and was later applied equally to the Galleon Bar on Portobello High Street. I also involved those who object to the publican’s proposal to use of the back common ground (which he claims to own) as a designated smoking area. I was supported by the local vet and two nearby residents all of whom spoke against the use of that common back area – as well as the earlier opening. The upshot was that a majority of the Licensing Board, took Councillor Mike Bridgman’s lead and agreed (4:2) that the licence will remain 9am. It would be open to the new owner to open at 7am for breakfast and coffee and only start selling alcohol at 9am, as a first step, but that is not what he seems to want to do. This might have been a way for local people to begin to trust that the establishment will be well run, as there has been a lot of trouble in the past, even in the daylight hours. In the heat of the moment, after the decision went against them, we were told that the pub would now remain open until 1am every night, the implication being there would be trouble. I can understand their anger and upset, but forcing the issue in this way is not going to help the case in the longer term. I hope the owner will find another way of proceeding to allay the reasonable fears of local parents and grandparents.
...

[Bob Jefferson]

Finally, some good news. Well done Maureen and Mike!

[Maria]

I'm not sure the promise by the new owner to stay open until 1 a.m. every night is something to cheer, Bob!

[Bob Jefferson]

Sounds like bravado to me. He won't want to pay his staff to work that late unless he can make a profit out of it and no-one else has been able to make a go of it in recent years. I don't think it will be long before it is back on the market.