Does God exist?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 13 Mar 2009, 13:41

A fine topic for the Gossip and Tittle Tattle forum you might think. My last post over on the St John's thread is heading off-topic so I thought I would save wangi the trouble and start a new discussion here on theological matters.

I saw Richard Holloway, the former Bishop of Edinburgh, at George Square Theatre in conversation with the well-known evolutionist and anti-theist Richard Dawkins recently.

Holloway's current position has been described thus:

He certainly does not consider himself an atheist and prefers the term “after-religionist” to agnostic. “You can be agnostic and not have any relationship with religion. With after-religion, religion is still there, but as a human construct. You value it still but you no longer operate with the assumption that it belongs to some kind of celestial domain.”

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 13 Mar 2009, 13:50

And on a trivial front, I am amused that this thread is currently immediately followed by a thread entitled "He's here".

Some might consider that a sign.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 13 Mar 2009, 14:34

Talk Porty website wrote:Your vote has been cast.

Click Here to view your message

Thats my vote cast. No comment to make on the subject though.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 13 Mar 2009, 15:21

I believe The Flying Spaghetti Monster is alive and well
AAaaargh me hearties!

Apart from that, agnostic

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 13 Mar 2009, 15:43

Creationists take Genesis literally and believe that God created the world in 7 days, well 6 in fact. Others are content for their notion of a supreme being to exist in the context of an eleven dimensional multiverse.

I like this, no doubt apocryphal, tale from "A Brief History of Time":

A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 13 Mar 2009, 16:28

I revel in the wonder and intricacies of the natural world. I do not believe there is a God. 3 Cheers for Charles Darwin and Gregor Mendel.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 13 Mar 2009, 16:54

I'm a Darwin fan too. Not least of all because he was an Aquarian and he liked tortoises.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 13 Mar 2009, 17:30

So you don't believe in God but you do believe in astrology?

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 13 Mar 2009, 19:43

I'm here!

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 13 Mar 2009, 20:03

Bob Jefferson wrote:So you don't believe in God but you do believe in astrology?

I also believe in ghosts

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 14 Mar 2009, 11:48

A useful link for Bob

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 14 Mar 2009, 11:58

Liberate yourself from the Original Mumbo-Jumbo that liberated you from the Original Sin you never had!

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 14 Mar 2009, 12:44

Saw a bit about debaptism on the news this am.
Its not something I will ever have the need for.
THIS makes more sense than anything to me

Skeely · Post by **Skeely** » 14 Mar 2009, 15:53

You'll find the answer here: The Official God FAQ.

kipling · Post by **kipling** » 16 Mar 2009, 00:45

Pal of Porty wrote:I revel in the wonder and intricacies of the natural world. I do not believe there is a God. 3 Cheers for Charles Darwin and Gregor Mendel.

I’m glad you have it all sorted out, and I admire your certainty. Gregor Mendel might not have agreed. He was a Roman Catholic monk.

Does God exist? Of course (s)he does.

in what form? Christianity works for me. Buddha, Ganesh and the Flying Spaghetti Monster might be OK, too. Just as long as your God supports a belief system that results in your being nice to people.

Personally, I’m with Elvis.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman ... gs-to.html

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 16 Mar 2009, 10:09

kipling wrote:I’m glad you have it all sorted out, and I admire your certainty. Gregor Mendel might not have agreed. He was a Roman Catholic monk.

And Darwin was from a religious background too. His wife in particular was a very devout Christian.

P.S. As Bruce himself says, "God have mercy on the man who doubts what he is sure of."

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 16 Mar 2009, 16:54

I'm a no. However, I do believe in faith. I have 2 uncles who both converted to Catholicism. They derive and give a great deal from their parish communies and have done for many years. Not sure either truly believe in God but faith bonds them together in a positive way, socially and spiritually.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 16 Mar 2009, 22:32

I think there is no doubt that religion, in many cases, performs a useful social function and is responsible for splendid charity work and other 'good deeds' and there are some very fine and good people involved in these things. Leaving the whole God thing aside for a moment, there is much to commend what the church does.

But that's just one flavour of religion, vanilla if you like, in a wide spectrum and there are a lot of mad, bad and dangerous people out there who are willing to perform unspeakable acts of evil in the name of their god.

Post by **wangi** » 16 Mar 2009, 22:57

Bob Jefferson wrote:But that's just one flavour of religion, vanilla if you like, in a wide spectrum and there are a lot of mad, bad and dangerous people out there who are willing to perform unspeakable acts of evil in the name of their god.

And there are a whole lot of mad, bad and dangerous people out there who are willing to perform unspeakable acts of evil... irrespective of a belief in "God" or otherwise.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 18 Mar 2009, 11:27

I think what worries me is 'faith' without regard to logic or scientific fact. How can you hope to reason with someone who believes that it is God's will that he should blow himself up in a crowded market place or place a bomb on a plane?

Do you believe in such a God? Or Zeus or Thor or any number of other unlikely or vengeful gods? No? Well, as someone once said, we are all atheists - I simply believe in one less god than you.

If you believe that God created the world in 6 days then you might believe anything. If, on the other hand, you are of the persuasion that much of the bible is not literally true, that the miraculous stories are merely parables intended to convey lessons in life, then what is the point of it? Is it any good as a moral guide? Do people who believe in God have a monopoly on morality?

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 18 Mar 2009, 12:42

Bob Jefferson wrote:I think what worries me is 'faith' without regard to logic or scientific fact.

That is what faith is though Bob!

StarVanMan · Post by **StarVanMan** » 20 Mar 2009, 01:02

I think Archbishop Carey said that faith involves doubt not certainty.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 21 Mar 2009, 10:31

StarVanMan wrote:I think Archbishop Carey said that faith involves doubt not certainty.

That would be Thatcher-appointed George Carey, who presided over the Lambeth Conference of 1998 and actively supported the resolution at that conference which uncompromisingly rejected all homosexual practice as "incompatible with scripture".

I'm not surprised he had some doubts.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 26 Mar 2009, 23:10

Meanwhile, in Africa around 4 million Aids-infected Roman Catholics are being told by the Pope not to use condoms.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7951839.stm

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 27 Mar 2009, 15:40

No takers on that one.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 27 Mar 2009, 15:46

StarVanMan wrote:I think Archbishop Carey said that faith involves doubt not certainty.

Does certainty exist anywhere other than death itself?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 27 Mar 2009, 16:01

As Benjamin Franklin said:

"'In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 27 Mar 2009, 16:05

Are you certain he said that?