Cycling on the Promenade

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 02 Dec 2007, 14:20

I'm a cyclist, I'm a pedestrian, I'm a car user. I confess that I have cycled on the prom in what I regard to be a responsible fashion and will continue to do so. If this is unlawful (and the jury still seems to be out on that) then the law is an ass.

I agree that it would be preferable for police patrols on the prom to be made on foot or by bicycle, though the latter clearly entails some degree of irony, which is what my post sought to highlight.

Skeely · Post by **Skeely** » 02 Dec 2007, 15:06

Ahh, got you. I'm another prom cyclist. I understand the concerns, but wouldn't like to see segregated bike lanes on the prom. The lack of motor traffic makes our prom unique among city beaches, and it's also what makes it safe and enjoyable for cyclists. I cycle to work along the Innocent railway, which is great, but when you get into the town traffic, the lack of good cycle lanes and the aggressive attitude to cyclists some car drivers have makes it hard going. Banning bikes from the Prom will only discourage cycling around Edinburgh, which would be a backwards step.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 02 Dec 2007, 15:33

From my point of view ( a non cyclist) I have no read problem with people cycline along the Prom providing some common sense is used, ie when we are in the middle of a heat wave and the beach and prom is heaving with people (small kids) then its probs best not to cycle along the prom, likewise, when people are cycling along the prom it would be nice if they done so responsibly, some cyclists forget they are in a commonwealth games speed test! but when im down the Prom I have to defend the cyclists and say most of them are pretty responsible and dont seem to be causing any real problems.

What annoys me about cyclists are the ones who use the road, but choose to ignore traffic light signals.

Ie, you are standing waiting to cross the road, the lights change to red and the wee green man appears, you start walking accross and a cyclist flys by.

sally_miranda · Post by **sally_miranda** » 04 Dec 2007, 18:28

I'm new to cycling and use the Promenade Mon-Fri twice each day to get to and from Queen Margaret Uni in Musselburgh. We are not allowed to park there and have been encouraged to cycle or use public transport which is no good for me, I would be late after dropping my son off at nursery.
I gave up my car and bought a bike for a number of reasons, one of them being I believed I could cycle along the promade after looking at a "spokes" cycle map, if I couldn't cycle there; I would give up my bike and go back to a car.
Some roads can be hell, taxi drivers hate us, bus drivers hate us and vans just don't seem to see us.
While cycling on the promenade, I do however slow right down, dismount when realising I've encountered the busy school run, wear bright clothing so I can be seen by people and slow right down when passing dogs (who are obviously oblivious to bright clothing).
I find it a delight to see the school run on the promenade with parents and kids cycling together and now, on Sundays, I use the promenade to cycle with my 3 year old son who is learning to ride a bike, I see it as the perfect place for him to learn. Isn't this what we want? To encourage kids to cycle and eventually be using less cars?
What is needed is more promotion of cyclists being "bike polite" both on cycle paths, shared paths and roads.
http://www.politecycling.info/index.html

We are having a cyclists meeting at QM Uni tomorrow, I'll bring this subject up and ask cyclists to be aware of all of these issues.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 04 Dec 2007, 18:45

With you 100% on this and thanks for the link. Welcome to the forum.

promqueen · Post by **promqueen** » 04 Dec 2007, 21:49

I'll second that !
Thanks for being so considerate

tom nimmo · Post by **tom nimmo** » 08 Dec 2007, 13:38

Nice one sally_miranda. You have given just about every reason there is to support cycling on the prom. I cycle from Portobello to Easter Road and back four days a week and if I couldn't go on the prom up beyond the dog and cat home then I would either drive or take the bus. My favourite part of the journey is where I turn off Seafield Road and cut through the cemetery. It is just so peaceful there and one morning in the spring I hand-fed a fox my lunchtime sandwich. Magical. I had always planned to be set on fire when I finally gave up on this life but I think I would be quite comfortable being laid to rest in Seafield cemetery, it's a lovely, tranquil spot.

ileniapizzo · Post by **ileniapizzo** » 11 Dec 2007, 19:33

Hi Everybody!!
I only wanted to say that all the cycling on the promenade issue is irritating.I think tehre is enough space to accomodate everybody.
Today a friend of mine has been haressed by a women on the promenade because she was cycling there.This behavior is unacceptable I cycle everyday and most of the time there are only kids going to school and cyclists .I have never seen anybody putting anybody else at risk.Physical activity is very important especially in this country were being overwight is an issue and obesity is increasing at high rate among children.Portobello high street is to busy and dangerous especially for kids and old people.The cycling ban would discourage cycling and would be contradictory with all the health and green campaigns than Edinburgh is developing.

Bazza · Post by **Bazza** » 21 Dec 2007, 13:30

Well, I've given up cycling on the Prom, after all the complaints. However, I was one of the considerate ones. I slow down nearly to a halt if I'm passing old folk, or folk with kids or dogs, and I give everyone as wide a berth as possible.

However, I learnt to ride a bike on the streets of London, and I can cycle fast, so I can manage the High Street, the Kings Road roundabout and London Road easy enough.

But a lot of folk can't, and those are scary places to ride, especially if you're not confident.

So my own view is that we should allow cycling on the prom, probably in a cycle lane, and that the Polis - ideally on bikes - should patrol there.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 28 Jan 2008, 15:47

From today's EN:

Wheels turn in campaign for cycle path

Post by **wangi** » 28 Jan 2008, 16:20

Bob Jefferson wrote:From today's EN:

Wheels turn in campaign for cycle path

Although that's nothing to do with cycling on the Prom. For more info see http://greenerleith.squarespace.com/. As a cycle path it already exists, just needs a wee bit of work on ramps.

Bazza · Post by **Bazza** » 13 Feb 2009, 15:07

admin: split from http://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?p=80110#80110

BeachBum wrote:

> TBH, i had considered starting to cycle to work, but decided to wait until
> after the works have been finished before I give it a bash.

Actually, the roadworks don't really affect us cyclists. If you head up along Fishwives causeway, there's a crossing over Harry Lauder Road, and it goes up to London Road. Coming back, the last section isn't lit, so can be a bit hairy, especially with all the ice, but it's not too bad. And if you're heading to Leith, then the Prom from the King's Road onwards is cyclable.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 13 Feb 2009, 17:40

Bazza wrote:...

And if you're heading to Leith, then the Prom from the King's Road onwards is cyclable.

So you are advocating & promoting cycling on the prom?

Wasnt there a debate on here as to whether cycling on the prom was allowed? Is it allowed?

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 13 Feb 2009, 17:43

BeachBum wrote:
Bazza wrote:...

And if you're heading to Leith, then the Prom from the King's Road onwards is cyclable.
So you are advocating & promoting cycling on the prom?

Wasnt there a debate on here as to whether cycling on the prom was allowed? Is it allowed?

Here is that very debate.

Grunk · Post by **Grunk** » 13 Feb 2009, 17:48

Except the bit he is talking about isn't in the cycle exclusion zone.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 13 Feb 2009, 17:50

Grunk wrote:Except the bit he is talking about isn't in the cycle exclusion zone.

Ahh, so it doesnt cover the whole prom. Interesting.

portyallmydays · Post by **portyallmydays** » 14 Feb 2009, 17:37

BeachBum wrote:
Bazza wrote:...

And if you're heading to Leith, then the Prom from the King's Road onwards is cyclable.
So you are advocating & promoting cycling on the prom?

Wasnt there a debate on here as to whether cycling on the prom was allowed? Is it allowed?

I cycled along the prom and back this morning and there is cycle signs on every second lamppost all the way to eastfield. I presume it has been deemed an authorised cycle way now?

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 14 Feb 2009, 19:03

portyallmydays wrote:
I cycled along the prom and back this morning and there is cycle signs on every second lamppost all the way to eastfield. I presume it has been deemed an authorised cycle way now?

So is cycling allowed on the whole prom know? Its not just the one section that its allowed on? Grunk has already said in this thread that one part of it isnt covered by the ban?

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 14 Feb 2009, 19:04

We seem to be off topic now.

I wonder if that admin guy Wangi will move us?

Post by **wangi** » 14 Feb 2009, 22:44

Eh, you've already been replying on the thread - the posts were split off and merged yesterday...

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 14 Feb 2009, 23:11

wangi wrote:Eh, you've already been replying on the thread - the posts were split off and merged yesterday...

Perhaps I should pay more attention..lol..I thought we were still on the the thread about the former kings road roundabout

D'oh!

Grunk · Post by **Grunk** » 15 Feb 2009, 21:31

portyallmydays wrote:I cycled along the prom and back this morning and there is cycle signs on every second lamppost all the way to eastfield. I presume it has been deemed an authorised cycle way now?

I think perhaps you need to read your highway code again.

The red circle around the bicycle means...

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 15 Feb 2009, 21:43

Grunk wrote: I think perhaps you need to read your highway code again.

The red circle around the bicycle means...

You mean this one?

So getting back to where this started... ....

Bazza wrote:
Actually, the roadworks don't really affect us cyclists. If you head up along Fishwives causeway, there's a crossing over Harry Lauder Road, and it goes up to London Road. Coming back, the last section isn't lit, so can be a bit hairy, especially with all the ice, but it's not too bad. And if you're heading to Leith, then the Prom from the King's Road onwards is cyclable.

Is it legal to cycle on the part of the prom which Bazza talks about?

There appears to be a difference of opinion here.

Post by **wangi** » 15 Feb 2009, 22:34

I cycle the entire length of the Prom... However if you are concerned about what arbitrary placed signs say is allowed then Bazza is indeed right. All of the Prom northwest of the Indoor Bowling is explicitly marked as being a cycle route (the blue signs), as is the continuing pavement along Seafield Rd.

For the rest it's a confused situation... With the above mentioned red signs but also blue signs on some paths leading onto the Prom...

However as a proposed Core Path and the Edinburgh Water Prom scheme the momentum is definitely towards explicitly allowing cycling on the remainder of the Prom.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 15 Feb 2009, 22:36

I'm not sure the main prom is clear cut. The Council are very firmly of the opinion that it's not legal to cycle on it, but at one Community Council meeting the Police said it was.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 16 Feb 2009, 11:30

seanie wrote:I'm not sure the main prom is clear cut. The Council are very firmly of the opinion that it's not legal to cycle on it, but at one Community Council meeting the Police said it was.

Yes that was indeed the view expressed and they had checked this out with the policy unit at Fettes. However, I believe there are members of the PCC trying to establish that the Promenade is a pavement and not a Promenade. The implication being that it is illegal to cycle on the pavement and therefore cycling on the Prom would be banned as it is now a pavement.

These people would have excelled in the Gestapo!

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 16 Feb 2009, 12:01

Pal of Porty wrote: I believe there are members of the PCC trying to establish that the Promenade is a pavement and not a Promenade. The implication being that it is illegal to cycle on the pavement and therefore cycling on the Prom would be banned as it is now a pavement.

I remember, years ago, a friend of mine telling me that there is a city by-law that permits cycling on Edinburgh's pavements. His Aunt was part of the Edinburgh judiciary, so perhaps it is true. Then again it may be a complete load of tosh.

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 16 Feb 2009, 12:39

Marya wrote:I remember, years ago, a friend of mine telling me that there is a city by-law that permits cycling on Edinburgh's pavements. His Aunt was part of the Edinburgh judiciary, so perhaps it is true. Then again it may be a complete load of tosh.

Ahhh - let's hope it's tosh! I have to confess to being one of "those people" who tell children off for cycling on pavements. Pavements are for pedestrians. "Shared accessways" - now that is different and a pedestrian would know that cyclists are entitled to use part of the access.
But, in general, cycling on the pavement is a no-no - simply because it is dangerous.

Post by **wangi** » 16 Feb 2009, 15:45

My first ever post to POL / Talk Porty was on this thread back in 2004... Reading it against I don't think anything has changed, bar a few extra signs.

Bazza · Post by **Bazza** » 16 Feb 2009, 18:52

Wow, what a response! I deliberately talked about the Prom above the Kings Road towards Seafield to avoid controversy too...

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 16 Feb 2009, 19:06

Bazza wrote:Wow, what a response! I deliberately talked about the Prom above the Kings Road towards Seafield to avoid controversy too...

There's a real 'tribe' thing that seems to happen when it comes to motorists and cyclists.

A friend was on his bike waiting at the traffic lights, when another cyclist blew the lights. Immediately an irrate car driver alongside my friend, rolled down his window and let off a stream of abuse at him, just because he was on a bike too! Imagine what it would be like if we all randomly abused other motorists , whenever we witnessed some nutter behind the wheel carry out a daft manoeuvre!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 16 Feb 2009, 22:29

The fact is that there are good and bad examples of both motorists and cyclists. The difference is that cyclists are much more vulnerable. Many cyclists take, what I would consider to be unnecessary risks - cycling without lights after dark, cycling without helmets, crashing red lights, cycling in high winds and icy conditions. Sure, in many cases it is a car driver that is at fault in fatal accidents involving cyclists but that is no consolation to those who are left behind.

I have no problem with cyclists using pavements in a careful and considerate fashion in situations where to cycle on the road would be much more dangerous. Brighton Place is a very good example of this. I know someone who came off his bike just under the bridge and was very lucky that no-one was behind him. The road through Holyrood Park from Duddingston is another. Why struggle uphill in a narrow lane with sharp bends when you have a perfectly good pavement or the option of an off-road route nearby? Sure, you are entitled to be there, but is it worth the danger you put yourself in to prove a point?

Don't get me wrong - I'm pro-cycling and support considerate cycling on the Prom but I feel that a lot of streets are now just too dangerous for cycling. Instead of cycle lanes and advance cycle stop lines that motorists just ignore, we should be investing serious money in upgrading and extending the network of off-road routes. I don't know how much of the transport budget is currently spent on cycle routes but I do recall that Spokes were delighted a few years ago when it was raised to 1%. That's pretty poor support for a mode of transport that supports a healthy lifestyle and has minimum impact on the environment.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 16 Feb 2009, 22:46

Bob Jefferson wrote: ... I have no problem with cyclists using pavements in a careful and considerate fashion in situations where to cycle on the road would be much more dangerous.

I must confess I object to people cycling on the pavement unless they happen to under the age of 10.

Im sure the highway code says people shouldnt cycle on pavements.

About a month ago my daughter and I walked out a shop and my wee girl was knocked to the ground by a cyclist speeding along the High Street. And last year I nearly went flying myself when a cyclist chose to ignore the red lights at the crossroads on the high street and went streaming through them whilst pedestrians were crossing. Ive actually seen that a few times.

Post by **wangi** » 16 Feb 2009, 23:02

I delight in letting bad cyclists know how I feel... As I cycle alongside.

However it's the shocking driving standards that really irritate me - a five mile cycle in the morning really does get the adrenalin pumping... From the fear of death and resulting anger. A lot of motorists seem to have an irrational desire to pass cyclists at the earliest opportunity - if I'm (as a cyclist) occupying the whole lane then there is a reason - it's not safe for you to overtake me just now.

The two times I've been involved in accidents (both as a cyclist) the cars behind tooted the horns, shouted abuse and told me to "get the fuck out of their way". I had been hit (glancing blow) by a small truck on the corner of Nicolson St & Richmond St (just before the Tesco) in one instance...

Don't get me started with some of the bus drivers... (most of course are good drivers; but statistically First bus and the tour buses are less so...)

Bazza · Post by **Bazza** » 17 Feb 2009, 10:50

Firstly, I agree that some cyclists are just asking for trouble - cycling without lights, jumping lights, etc etc.

However, the cars that try and run me off the road don't do it because of those reasons. I wear a high visibility jacket and helmet, I have two front and two back lights etc etc, and I only jump red lights if the council put up those annoying ones with car-detecting cameras that don't see cycles.

And yet still SOME car drivers feel that they just HAVE to overtake a bike if they see one, even if they're about to turn left, and they'll force me off the road if they try it. F@ckers.

And yeah, First Bus seem to be way behind LRT on training their drivers to be bike-aware.

10 years ago, LRT were just as bad, but they're much better these days.