Talk Porty ~ Portobello

I thought the most interesting paras of the report were:- "2.9 On 25 October 2012 it was reported to Council that there was a further review ongoing of the classification of Portobello Park as part of the common good of the city, in respect of which Council approved the recommendation that in the ab...

Interesting. It's significant this report is dated August 2009 - i.e. long after the report of January 2008 referenced in the Dorrian judgement in which the Council concluded there were "facts and circumstances" indicating CG and indeed long after November 2008 when the QCs gave their opinion on the...

little miss moffat wrote:Btw - I am happy to copy and paste the whole email if others want to read it.

Yes please.

seanie, before I say any more for now can I ask whether you believe the park to be common good or not?

The 2003 Act was meant to be far reaching. Prior to that Local Authorities could only do that which they had been given express statutory authority to do. The intention of the act was radical in that it gave the Local Authorities the power to advance well being unless there was an explicit limiting...

so as an analogy it's just silly. Perhaps. Can you suggest a better one to illustrate the point I was making. And when it cones to common law and common good there wasn't a single instance, of a single judge, in any case, ever articulating explicitly the inalienable could not be appropriated in any...

Secondly the Court took such a narrow view of 'well being' as to render the 2003 Act pointless. There is the option of clarifying what parliament intended under the 2003 Act. Slightly disagree with you there seanie (and Porty). I know Lady P made that rather careless throwaway remark about it not b...

Councillor’s Report September 2012 Maureen Child, Labour Councillor for Portobello/Craigmillar Portobello High School Judgement ... First, they all heard a very clear summary of the legal background from Andy Wightman who has done a huge amount of research in Common Good. Andy has advised both side...

The Association did not have the power to petition the Court so therefore any decision made by the Court would probably be set aside. Sorry David but I have to disagree with you here. Speaking as a lawyer, I would say there are various legal avenues of attack open to the Council but with all due re...

Once a constitution is adopted -and I am assuming here it has been adopted - it must be adhered to and if it is not PPAG may be operating "Ultra Vires"or outwith their powers. If on appealing the original Court decision they were operating Uirtra Vires them their appeal could be set aside as invali...

portygeoff wrote:PPAG Constitutaion page 21 near the bottom

My copy only has 11 pages

Got 2nd year tracking report home tonight, youngest Tufty has achieved straight Excellents. Now he may be a bit of a clever clogs, but he needed the teachers to do it. Yet again the staff at Porty have delivered exactly "what it said on the tin", even though it's badly bashed from over use. =D> I t...

I went along to the meeting to hear Andy Wightman say that there is now significant doubt as to whether Portobello Park is in fact Common Good land and I wasn't disappointed. Establishing this is the number one priority because if it isn't CG then we don't have a problem. I know there are people in...

Unfortunately, I suspect that there is no simple answer as to whether Portobello Park is CG or not. PPAG said it was, the Council said it wasn't. Andy Wightman said in his opinion it was, the Council conceded that it was, perhaps on the basis of the precedents set in Lanarkshire, where it didn't se...

... but my concern is that such an 'amendment' would attract opposition on a national basis from environmental groups opposed to what they would see as an erosion of protection to CG. A Private Act, on the other hand, could deal specifically with Portobello Park. That's a very good point Bob but a ...

With thanks to Andy Wightman here is a copy of the Joint Opinion of Senior Council for Edinburgh Council which was released in 2008 Unfortunately, that opinion doesn’t advise on whether the park is CG or not. It only advises the Council (wrongly as events transpired!) what to do in light of its con...

On the CG status, the land was also acquired under statutory powers, the Edinburgh Extension Act I think, so that's another reason that the CG status is maybe questionable. I agree. Sounds intriguing, have you any more info on this? However I think it may be a little late in the day for that. If th...

And would all this go away as an issue if indeed the land is NOT common good land, but just a chunk of land owned by the council? That's not been fully tested, I believe, as noted by someone up thread? Yes it would go away which is why I think the Council owes everyone the reassurance that it had V...

Yes. But you need permission from the courts. Given that the Inner and House looked at the same set of facts and came to diametrically opposite conclusions, how much confidence could you have in applying for permission to dispose? You'd be as well tossing a coin. The question that would be put to t...

And whilst Lady Paton may've approvingly quoted a case equating disposal with appropriation, a central part of the PPAG legal argument, expressed at some length, was that the case didn't involve a disposal. In fact everyone in the first hearing agreed on that. PPAG didn't want it to be a disposal p...

seanie wrote:And no, the Council weren't simply relying on the 2003 act. They also argued they had the power under Common Law.

I agree. Didn't intend to suggest otherwise.

How would your suggested change to the '73 act would make Lady Paton any more amenable should the same proposal come to her again? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question but if by "same proposal" you mean the merits of whether a school should be built in Porty Park, then that hasn't been before L...

I also think you've fundamentally misread the implications of this judgement. It's not at all a question of the Council having acted in a reasonable way; due consultation, planning, backing of the local population etc. The ruling of the court is that such an appropriation is unlawful. The factors y...

Neil, got following reply to your draft bill: Kenny MacAskill SNP ‏@KennyMacAskill @talkporty its a complex and specialist field of law but I am having it checked out with the experts. Yes, I got a very quick (minutes!) reply from KM as well as follows:- "Dear Neil Thanks for this. I am having matt...

Would it fix it though? If you introduce an explicit power to appropriate subject to approval of the courts, that's not an unfettered power to appropriate. Clearly the courts have discretion otherwise they wouldn't be involved. So in what circumstances would they not approve an appropriation? Would...

Hear what your saying seanie, and don't disagree, but my suggestion of a public bill of very narrow scope was an attempt to steer a course between a private bill being seen as special pleading ("If we can change the law so that Porty can have a school, what about the hospital in my constituency ...?...

Text of an e-mail I've sent to Kezia Dugdale copied to Kenny MacAskill:- "Dear Ms Dugdale I gather there is talk of a private act of parliament to authorise the construction of a new school on Portobello Park in the wake of the Council being blocked by the Court of Session decision. I personally fee...

Sexto. That if my said disponees or their foresaids shall act contrary to any of the reservations, conditions, provisions and declarations herein expressed then this Feu Right and all that may have followed upon the same shall become void and null and the said area or piece of ground hereby dispone...

A challenge for Kenny MacAskill or Kezia Dugdale. I've drafted the bill:- http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8450/7985583193_51ae79e156_z.jpg Portobello Bill by Neil F King , on Flickr Anyway, it's a bill for a public act of parliament (not a private act as has been touted) to amend the Local Government ...